Recovery, Peptides & Peak Performance with Bill Hanks

Peptides are just wonderful. I mean, it's kind of like saying, "What's your favorite kid?" Right? So, like, you know, they're they're all great. You know, I've got three daughters and you start seeing them grow older. You start to go, you know, hey, life is not as long as you think it is. I want to feel the best I can all the time, right? Because it adds so much color into life, right? When you feel good, you're more present. You're more aware. You relate with your family. You relate with your kids. You relate with your wife. And we're only here for just a little while. Let's make it count. You're doing stuff that's so far beyond. It's just absolutely amazing. So to take a guy from, you know, mid70s who was starting to think that this reality that he was never going to be able to play golf again, right? And we just went in and say, we're going to do a holistic approach. We're going to use, you know, red light, PMF, cryotherapy, and he's just happy as can be. You know, he's got his life back. In this episode, biohacking to the max. Bill Hanks, the man, the myth, the legend. So impressive. His level of knowledge is unbelievable across multiple modalities. So, we'll talk about peptides. We'll talk about uh different things that you can do to take your physical performance and mental performance to the next level. Welcome to the show. Growing up in a in a on a cattle ranch, I mean, that's like, you know, that's like one of those things where like you're up early, right? Yeah. I mean, it's just part of the deal. You got to get going. I mean, there's plenty of times as a teenager, you're out with your friends and you were um out too late and then you get home and it didn't matter. Dad was waking you up 6 7:00, you know, you had to go move cows, you had to move, you know, move hay, whatever it was. We always had something to do. So, there was no sleeping in as a kid growing up. But, I mean, that's actually how my body clock works anyway. So, now as I get older, it's like, yeah, it's no problem now. But it was a good way to grow up. Yeah. I would just imagine there's a ton of work ethic built into that. Yeah. Yeah. When um you know it's seven days a week, there's no days off. I mean you might get a lighter day on Christmas or you or you know something like that, but there's always something to be done. And um yeah, you just you just got to kind of roll with it. But the funny thing about it is like as a family and you kind of grow up that way like it's not necessarily you have to do it. It's like we got we got to do it. You have like the the whole team is part of it and the team is the family, right? And so we all had to do our part and the place wouldn't run by itself, you know, without everybody mo, you know, moving hay or doing whatever. So even my sisters, you know, they were part of it too. And we all worked together. It wasn't just a oneperson thing. And so each person, you know, just like in a community had had their, you know, thing that they were good at and they would help with and we all pitched in. And so it's it's a great way to grow up and teach that work ethic. And, you know, it holds you responsible at an early age because if you didn't do your part, you know, everybody else was like, "Hey, what's the deal?" you know, and so you're expected to do it and it's just kind of part of, you know, the way things operate. Yeah. And I think it gives you a real sense of the value of teamwork at an early age. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, some people experience that through organized sports or but that's a totally different setting. One where your entire li It's Hey, it's one thing you're going to go out and win a trophy, but it's another thing where your entire livelihood Yeah. depends on right that teamwork and your family's counting on you to actually, you know, be a part of that and do do your thing. So, um, you're like the ultimate biohacker, dude. I mean, you know, the funniest thing about when I first met you, it was just like, man, that first conversation was just so crazy about just like it just went on and on and on. And then to see what you've built and all the years of me doing what I do. I've, you know, never seen anything like it. I mean, it's absolutely amazing what you've put together. It's a phenomenal organization. For everyone out there, maybe you could help them understand like what was the process? How did you get there? Yeah. Well, thank you for that. I mean, you know, we some days you wonder why you're doing all of this. It's, you know, it's not like it doesn't have its struggles. And you know, we all have our own battles that we're fighting and everything like that. Um, but you know, biohacking when I started all this and we all kind of biohacking in a way anyway. We just didn't know we were. But, um, as an engineer, you know, that's what I studied, but I think also kind of to my background, you know, from growing up on a ranch in Wyoming and we lived 50 miles from, you know, school. That's I had to go one way 50 mi every day to school come back come back. But like living in an isolated area you become very resourceful and it like it forces you to think of ideas that you may not have thought of like you know if you were fixing equipment or something like that. You come up with like clever ideas and I think that kind of transposed into just kind of my work and career and all that. And even you know my engineering I loved the things that like were new and upcoming and you know I could always see a bigger perspective on how this might work together and and all that. So you know bring that forward to the business and what we did I never intended to like you know be a biohacker and operate a facility that had like a lot of tools that people can use for their health and for you know their wellness and things like that. I never intended that, but I think just kind of that way of thinking about things and bringing it together and the way, you know, I approach my own health and think about like, you know, what are the bottom line things you need to focus on in order to be healthy, in order to feel your best and, you know, be able to operate at a high level. And it really helps me because like you have to operate at a high level in what we do. I mean, it's it's hard. It's hard business. I mean, I was just talking to my friend from Salt Lake and in this kind of wellness and and health stuff, there's clinics closing all over the place and because they they all see like, oh yeah, people are kind of coming this way, but it's really hard to make, you know, things work, make the numbers work in order to be successful. And so like you know it's it's it's just part of like the deal where I use the things that I like that work in my clinic and then I use those to help our other people too cuz they're they're in the same boat. We're all human, right? And so um we all are dealing with you know the same kind of struggles and if we kind of break those down into the things that really work when you look down to the just cell the specific cell and make that operate and then you know build from that and then the whole system operates better too. So you know we just um look at the whole broad picture and then try to bring those things that kind of like you know come together with what makes the cell work more efficiently whether it's red light hyperaric therapy cryotherapy I mean even sauna um so just all the modalities that you think about that like you know help that cell kind of function better then we bring that into the market where people can you know use that to anti-age or to reduce inflammation. And a lot of our clients are dealing with some kind of inflammation. And so, you know, the number one cause of pretty much all disease is inflammation. And so, where does that start? Well, we have to find that out and then, you know, go to the root cause and build from there, right? So, that's kind of the, you know, overview of like what we do and and, you know, we bring all these pieces together and and it's it's a fun job because we hear crazy stories. I mean, I just shared one with you earlier today where someone who um has been using readers in order to read her book and then she's done, you know, on her fifth session of hyperbarics, she's like, I don't need my readers anymore. I mean, this is like not even like common stuff. So, it's just so cool to hear these stories and people would never have had that opportunity had we have not brought our business to market. So, it's it's just a fun journey and just to hear the stories makes it worthwhile. Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, there's so many modalities. You just mentioned hyperaric oxygen therapy, Hbot. Most people really have no idea what that's all about. Yeah. And maybe just talk a little bit more about that. Yeah. So, and if they have heard about it, they've heard about it like through scuba diving or maybe they've known somebody who needed some serious like wound care or something like that. They might have heard about it. They're like, "Oh, this is in the hospital. It's really, you know, I've heard good things about it." but they don't really know much beyond that. Well, there really isn't um good um hyperbaric being done out there. And what I mean by that is like someone will say that they have a hyperbaric chamber and they'll have a like canvas bab bag, you know, it's just a you know, portable, you know, bag and then they pressurize it and they sit in it. Well, what you really need is um breathing oxygen. You have to have oxygen coming into the system and then you have to have pressure. And sometimes those low pressure ones are great for, you know, just mild increases in um oxygenation, but like what you want is like more of a, you know, increased pressure and then diffusion of the oxygen into the blood plasma. So, breaking it back, um, what oxygen therapy does or hyperbaric oxygen therapy does is you're in a pressurized vessel, meaning like you're you're putting pressure to think of yourself inside the the car tire that you have. It's got pressure. It's got 40 lbs of pressure, right? We're not going that high, but like just think your body is in that. Okay? So, now your body is in that. And now gas behaves deep differently. We know gas behaves differently at different pressures. open a can of Coke, it expands. Right? So that's what we're doing. We're bringing pressure and we're decreasing the size of the oxygen molecule and then we're diffusing it into the bloodstream. So um what happens in that is just like a a beautiful healing process is like you get um increased ability to transport oxygen through the bloodstream. So now you have the free flow of oxygen that isn't restricted to the red blood cells. So red blood cells is what's carrying most of our oxygen and through hyperbaric oxygen is free to just float in the blood. Right? So now these molecules that are smaller, they're smaller in size because of the pressure and there's more of them and they say can you can transport more on the red blood cell and you're diffusing them into the blood plasma. That's why you want the higher pressure to get to more areas. And so your body starts circulating that oxygen and these cells that have been hypoxic and starved, especially if you've had an injury or um a wound or just anything like that, these cells start to grab that oxygen and they start to realize, oh yeah, this is my job. I need to heal. I need to do this. I need to do that. And so then you get this awesome healing event. and then you come out of it and you feel better for the day. But what you really need to do is you need to sequence that, right? So like you're creating a healing event and then if you do it the next day you create another healing event and then when you compound that you're actually reversing the process of daily, you know, activity. Daily activity is breaking you down, breaking you down. But like when you say, "Hey, I'm going to recover more on this day and then I'm going to do it the next day." Now you're adding the surplus of recovery and healing that you would have never have had in your life otherwise. Yeah. So you like compound that and there's then a whole bunch of other things that you can add in along with that to take it to a whole another level. Yes. Let's talk about like what's a peptide that no one else is talking about right now? Right now um probably SS31. Um, I I like this one just because um it works on the cell me membrane. So like um when you're thinking about real health, the cell is obviously the fundamental basis of everything, right? So we're, you know, four or five trillion cells, right? And the more you can make each one healthy, the better, right? So um SS31 is a mitochondrial peptide that improves the cell membrane. Um, so like it functions better, right? So you get more ATP out of it and it behaves in the manner that it it needs to. So I think adding that one into like a routine. Um, working on the mitochondria might be one of the most fundamental things that you need to do that people overlook a lot. Like I think a lot a lot of people are focused on, you know, muscle mass and things like that. Um, but man, if you focus on the mitochondria, the cell, the cell membrane, like now we're talking because now we're like transferring the right data. We're transferring everything better and you're protecting it down to the fundamental level. Yeah. You're able to actually produce like I mean it's when you say the fundamental level, it's like the foundation. Yeah. Right. People are trying to start by putting the you know the the bathroom in the second floor, right? Uh but the foundation's not even in yet. you haven't even framed it out, right? You know, so they're starting at the wrong place. So, kind of getting started at the right place. It makes sense. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, that's one that people are, you know, but then there's like there's a whole, you know, litany of of other peptides that I mean, and everybody's I mean, that's been talked about a million times over, you know. So, what's another one that you found that you find really interesting? Well, panelon or pinealon, depending on how you like to say it. Um, this is one of my favorite because like getting back to foundational things, right? Like if there's one thing that I think is more foundational than anything that people just forget about, it's sleep. Like if you think about it, like I can go without food for like probably seven eight I actually done a seven-day fast. So I know I can go seven days, but I know I can't go more than like 48 hours without sleeping cuz like you start doing that, you know, you're really starting to break down the body and you can't even function, right? So when it comes to like you know foundational things like uh and what matters um pinealon is one that really helps that circadian rhythm balance and the pineal gland is really important for all of that. And when you have a better you know function of that then circadian rhythm becomes more in balance and all of the stress all of the anxiety all of the you know whatever you may be dealing with starts to be able to balance it right you know how it is when you get 7 hours of sleep 7 to 8 hours of sleep consistently like I mean you're on fire there's not a better performance-enhancing drug than just sleep right so sleep is fundamental And I really that's one that doesn't get a lot of, you know, looks, but I think is probably one of the more fundamental ones. So true. You know, like I like struggled with sleep for like I think my entire adult life and um and even when I was a kid um so you know and all the years of traveling, you know, just you know, millions I was on and just going going and like never sleeping well the first night in the hotel. Yeah. So, if we're going to take the Magic Three, the ones that no one really knows about, what's another hot one? Another hot one? Um, and it's not that sexy. Again, um, thymolin, right? Um, when you're back to kind of fundamentals, um, like thinking of the immune system and your thymus gland, they're looking at aging. And one of the key ways that they can reduce or slow aging is working with the thymus gland and improving its function. So it gets back to inflammation, right? So inflammation is just causing havoc. You know, it's creating a fire in your body and your body's trying to figure out what to do with it and your immune system's fighting it. So thymoline helps modulate the the immune system and I think of it like you know as a way to you know help it perform better. So um it's one of the ones that I like to use in a course like over a period of time like each year and just make sure like you're really optimizing the immune function as you go through. And the other thing is is like unless you get sick the better, right? And even back to sleep, right? So you get sick, you don't sleep good, you know, you got things to do. So you're trying to work through being sick and all that stuff just reres havoc on the body and just its normal circadian rhythms and functions. So back to immune system, you know, just like I think that one's fundamental, too. And then I think you know you kind of get those then let's start playing with the body composition and um you know working with you know gaining muscle mass and things like that. So that's kind of the approach I like to take is like foundational things and then you know pulse in there some things that like boost muscle mass you know help with you know your workouts in the gym, help with your recovery, things like that. And and they can help with sleep too as well. So, um, you know, peptides are just wonderful. I mean, it's kind of like saying, "What's your favorite kid?", right? So, like, you know, they're they're all great and they all have a function. And I think um what's cool about them is like you're going to help yourself in some way, but sometimes being smart about them is good, too, because you're going to get more out of them. And um also just think of kind of a broader picture of like what we're trying to do here. But you can't forget BPC157 and TB500. I mean the recovery peptides, those are just amazing for you know inflammation as well, right? So um you know making sure like you know you're you're not being injured, you're recovering well, your body's feeling good, joints are nice and limber. You know those are just as important because you know if you're not if you're not exercising you're not getting all the benefits. And so like if your knee hurts, you're not going to exercise as much or you know something like that. So you know that's also a big big one too. So back to the my ideas like saying which one's your favorite kid, right? Yeah. Let's move past this for now because I really want to dig into some areas that I think are super important about peak performance. You know, the name of the podcast is The Pathway to Peak Performance, and you really represent a guy that is neverending, searching for the pathway to peak performance. You were a true optimizer. And I think it's really an interesting opportunity to hear from you. What was inside of you that was the driving force for this pathway to peak performance? Uh, that's a that's a big question. Um, yeah. What's inside of me for that? I think it all started with like having kids and um, you know, I've got three daughters and um, when I when I had the kids, I started to realize and you start seeing them grow older. You start to go, you know, hey, life is not as long as you think it is, right? And you start to see time go so fast, right? And so when when you're thinking of like how much time we have on this earth, it's not that much. And and I started to think about it in a way that like, you know, I want to feel the best I can all the time, right? Because it adds so much color into life, right? When you feel good, you're more present. You're more aware. Um you enjoy those moments better. You remember those moments. And so like the more that you feel good in your body, the better you, you know, you relate with your family, you relate with your kids, you relate with your wife. And so like having like health at one of the core foundations of like even making my relationships better um has kind of become the driver for that cuz like at the end of the day, you know, my relationships are and with my family and you know, my community and things like that are some of the most important things in my life. And so I need to feel good and I need to also, you know, be able to enjoy it while I'm here on this planet, right? And I think the more that like we feel better and and and we we feel optimal, like the more we get out of life. There's more juice in the squeeze, right? So um you know, again, it's just kind of looking at the whole picture by seeing like, you know, hey, life is kind of short. I think the before the philosophy was life is short don't sleep right and I I don't you know go as hard as you can right no it's like life is short live it to your best be optimal in that life right so I think for me it was just a um function of just seeing a different you know thing about life as you age right you start to age and you start to realize like you know time is not endless us, right? We're only here for just a little while. Let's make it Let's make it count. Yeah. It's interesting. You know, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but kind of what I'm seeing is some sort of pattern with you, which is like, you know, there's this beginning of life with, you know, having to innovate and be a part of a team. Right. Right. you go on to school, you're studying engineering, you get your MBA, um you know, you're doing work and then you start this business and like stuff you I can relate cuz like one business sort of brings the next one and then the next one they all kind of inter intermingle in some way, shape or form. But I think what happened at human you kept finding the next thing and kept adding all these things. Like when I first went in, I was like I was like, "Dude, what is going on here?" Right. It like I remember I you put me in that uh chair where um put the goggles on. Wave. Yeah. Shift wave. Yeah. That was that was just absolutely nuts. Like I can't you like you come out of that thing, you're like whoa. And then the pelvic floor chair, right? Um, you know, obviously cryo, red light, sauna, um, cold plunge, um, all those kind of things. PMF, the PMF plus that laser, my wrist still feels a million times better. Yeah. Like, and that's that's, you know, bend a minute. Tell me one of your favorite modalities. Again, one of your favorite kids, right? So, all of them are beautiful in their own way. Um I I really like to stack them, right? And but um you know, one of the ones that just like you know, when you talking about like um sleep and nervous system reset and being able to like get back into that flow state, um the hyperaric oxygen is like just so incredible. Like I I was watching my watch one time when I was in there and like I I went down to the shop early one morning and I was I just wanted to do hyperbaric. I think I woke up early and I was like man I just I'm kind of stressed things are you know you know I'm just having a hard time and and all that. So I went in and like my my uh watch was thinking I was still in bed because it was so early in the morning. And so, you know, I got in the hyperbaric chamber and um you know, I did a session and and uh you know, I just felt so good afterwards. And I pulled up my watch just kind of thinking and it recognized that I was awake, but it it measured my my HRV that night when I was in bed. Um it was, you know, operating fairly low, right? It was like in the, you know, 650 60s7s and you just see a line and then like 4:00 in the morning when I got in that hyperaric chamber or 5 whatever it was, it like shot up to like 150, you know, and so it's like your body is just like taking this oxygen and just using it to like help control and calm down the nervous system. So my body was immediately taking and going, "Ah, relax." And I think like one of the things that happens um is we forget to breathe, right? And especially when you're stressed and I don't and that's why breath work is so fundamental, but you can only, you know, you only have so much time and you're always looking ways to hack something, get faster and stuff like that. So when you're when you're not stressed, you're breathing right, you know, your oxygen CO2 is balanced, but like when you're stressed, your CO2 increases and you're probably not delivering as much oxygen. And so the nervous system is just, you know, stressed. And then the hyperbaric just like helps completely reset that and helps, you know, get you back into that parasympathetic tone and the body kind of calms down and kind of gets back into that state. And so whenever like you know you know as a business owner and things like that I mean I I even have a hard time doing the you know those sessions where you can build upon build upon build upon and I still need to do like a real solid protocol but like if you can do it like one or two times a week like I mean your sleep starts to come back into line you know things start to kind of like improve and you're just really kind of bringing that nervous system the central nervous system back into that paras sympathetic state where you can get back into flow state and feel good and, you know, operate with, you know, quick decisions, right? I think when you're in flow state, you just know the right decision. You're just like, "Oh, yeah. I'm making the right decision." And when you're in that sympathetic just fight orflight, it's really hard to get dialed down, you know? Yeah. You're in the amigdula and you're not getting to the neoortex and uh you're just sort of like, you know, uh all cortisol is firing. you're like tripped out and yeah and the pineal gland that's the one that like really helps you like come up with the creative you know side of things and so um yeah probably hyperaric and panelon would be a good combo. Yeah, good combo. Yeah, it's so cool what you're doing. Um but business is stressful. Yes. So I'm curious how like you know beyond like right now you're faith-based guy. Mh. Yeah. Got that. I think that's first and foremost for you. Mhm. So, faith, family, community, work. Yeah. How do you get in the flow state that's you know to manage a business that's growing at the rate that yours is? Well, you know, bringing all of it together, it obviously starts with the foundation, your faith. Um, knowing exactly, you know, things are working out per the plan, you know, and when you know that, you can have that, you know, reassurance that um what you're doing is part of the purpose, right? as long as you're living a life with integrity and you're you're doing you know your best work and everything like that it you know God will work out with you and and help you you know with whatever you do right so um that's kind of fundamental you know that just like why do I make decisions that I make and what am I doing right now that that lives there and then you know every day you know you you when you're there with your kids whether it's in the morning um or in the evening, you're you're just totally present with them and you you know, you put your your devices down and you just take those moments and you just realize that like, hey, this is not forever. You know, I have four-year-old and um a six-year-old and a 16-year-old and like I've seen the 16-year-old go from, you know, the four, the sixth stage and all that. So like it it helps me really appreciate you know like you know the time that I have with them right and so that fills your cup right those two things fill your cup and then that allows you to take that to the business and do that without you know the loving wife that I have and without the kids at home to you know the daughters that just love on you and all that stuff none of none of the other stuff is you know that meaningful. So, so you fill your cup right from those two two places and then from there you know it's like take that into you know the things I was talking about you know the modalities you know because what do I want from feeling good and you know having good health well it's to serve both of those right serve for serve your family and serve your savior and you know to be able to do that and do it well you know we're giving this body and we're given one body and we need to take care of it and you know help it perform at the the best level it can right and um even though we don't make all the right choices every day to do that um you know we try to do our best each day and so I think you know those things there you know help you know support the things that I'm doing with the business and the family and and growing human and you know those those are also part of the community and the stories that you hear, right? The stories that you hear for like I was telling you about the lady being able to, you know, see see again. I mean, that's like just so incredible to, you know, fill your cup from another direction, too. So, yeah. So, you got to fill your cup. Sounds to me that so many people derive their sense of self from the work that they do, but it doesn't sound like that's the case for you. Sounds like, you know, the way you just described that, it's like you got these things that bring you come to to work with the cup full. So, anything that happens, you know, could be stressful, but you know, managing employees, things that are beyond your control, supplier doesn't give me this, that, whatever. But that gives you an a foundation to actually deal with those things in a way that's is that an accurate statement? It is, but you know, um it it's funny you say that because like it's fundamental and I I believe it, but like it doesn't mean that I don't stress out, you know? It doesn't mean I don't have stress. You know, I have these things. I know I have these things. They're they're fundamental, but sometimes I forget that, right? And so like if I've got a family at home, like everything's going to be okay, right? And so, but yes, that doesn't mean that I I I walk the same path that everybody else does is like I have that stress, right? And so I think, you know, maybe where I do a good job is um I try to, you know, find ways that I can help, you know, reduce that stress and help me get back into alignment. So, you know, I'm not perfect, right? And so, you know, I always have my challenges as well, too. And the business that you've created actually allows you to take care of that stress on a level that most people are just not going to have access to. Yeah. Um, at that level, right? Yeah. I remember when I was coming to see you in Houston and you're like, "Oh, dude, I'm not I'm not feeling so hot. I'm going to run over to the uh to the clinic." Yeah. And um I'm going to jump in some red light. I'm going to do some HBOT and uh and then boom, right? You were like, I feel tires better. Then we had just this like phenomenal day the next day. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. Um so it's kind of interesting the life that you've created. For the person that's listening, the young person that's listening, it's like, you know, wanting to embark in being an entrepreneur, wanting to own their own business, not get stuck in the corporate trap of of, you know, how that world works, which applies also to healthcare. Yeah. Uh the sick care model of healthcare. What are the guiding principles that you would say that have helped you navigate through the tough times? Well, I think the main thing is and I think this probably happens too often is people they they stop too early, right? Um now you you could argue that like there is a there is a point to stop, right? And there is a point that like things aren't working out. Um, but I still feel like if you have that drive and you have that passion and and and things may not feel like they're going the right direction, but you're still putting in the work day in and day out, like something will happen. Some something you never thought would happen will happen and it'll help route the business or whatever it is that you're working on in the right direction. those in those dark blue bud days and you you know about them being a business owner people have no idea like what the level of stress is that you go under right and you know you're thinking about all the jobs of the people that you have you're thinking about um the impact on your family if things don't work out you're thinking you know all these doomday scenarios right and you just can't give up you know when when things are get a little bit hard you know and so you have to keep keep moving forward. And I know that kind of is a cliche. Everybody says that, but I still believe that that's fundamental in success is like you have to have put in the work day in and day out and not give up, right? So, um if it's really something that you want to see happen and you've got the belief that it's there, then something will align eventually. Yeah. You just have to put the footwork in and then have the faith and also the passion. today when we see you know you're younger than I am but I think you know immediately our thought processes were aligned and how we looked at the world and um and the way that we you know go about doing things. Um it seems like mediocrity is the new standard of excellence for a lot of people. They're not they're not like you know they don't have a personal brand. Yeah. they're not really like um it's sort of like hey what's the minimum amount of work I can do um to satisfy this and then I'm out and trying they're not they're not on the same track it feels like at times and that's a generalization and unfair to actually characterize all people that way right but I think we've run into it we talked about it um what do you do with people like that in your organization when you find somebody that's just like hey you're not living up to the things that are on the back of this shirt. You know, you you really um can only motivate people so far, right? And and I think it's, you know, a matter of like, you know, when you bring somebody on the team, um you really have to figure out whether or not, you know, they're going to align with the core values and the core values of, you know, what it is that you're trying to do. Um, so having those deep conversations, you know, those good, you know, interviews and, you know, time with somebody and trying to just really assess that to bring them onto the team. Now, can you redirect it? Sometimes, yes, maybe. Sometimes you can, you know, you find something out about somebody that they needed that you aren't providing and then that can reroute the whole um the whole direction. But then other times um it's it's not a good fit, right? The core values don't align with the person that you have. So you have to think about that um in terms of like what you value and what your what your team looks like and um try to find the people that are that can do that and then you know if they don't then we have to you know part ways you know and so knowing your core values is values is so important. So like you can you know assess the person that meets that. So true. So big things at human new location or expanded location. Um like what's next on the horizon for human? Where is it going? So we want to help more people, right? And so right now we're in this kind of let's get you know the foundation created and then when the foundation's created then we'll be ready to go to the next level. So the next level will be expanding the team um creating more operations whether that be other locations things like that but I think you know there's a really big drive right now in just kind of people's awareness about like health and longevity and I mean you hear all the time we were one of the first people to say we were human optimization longevity and this was like six years ago before like longevity was even word Now you're everywhere you tear it around. It's like longevity. And so um but I it gets to the point that like there's a lot of these um modalities that we we have that people don't have access to and people who want access to them, we want to help them, you know, get access to it. So create the foundation and then expand from there and you know grow into the next phase into more of a growth phase. But we still need to build the foundation and, you know, get all of that in place to be able to serve the people in a better way. Just when you think you've got it right and you've got it totally dialed in, there are forces that are beyond anyone's control that are going to shape the market and um and cause you to have to adapt and change. So, it's staying nimble, being able to pivot, looking at um new opportunities. piece. And I think that's one of the things I really admire about you, Bill, is that you're always looking for like we were talking about this brain scan thing that I was at the meeting um in Boston. These guys showed this brain scan thing and I'm like, "Oh, I said to the guys, I'm like, "Hey, got to talk to my guy um Bill Hanks." It was funny cuz when I called you on the phone about it, I was like, "Hey, Bill, you got to check check this thing out." You're like, "Oh, that's so crazy that you just called me cuz I'm looking at this this thing right now, this other product." Yeah. And it's a different model. Theirs is buy the model. The other one is a SAS model. Um, who knows from a business standpoint how which one actually works out better, right? Yeah. More analysis to do there. But yeah, but you know, you're always on the hunt for the next thing. That's one thing about you that's really interesting. It's like you're uh like you're like a chat GBT Gemini 2.5 Pro uh Grock, you know? It's like you got a question. It's just like, hey, what do you think? And it's so amazing like how do you do that? It it's all a function of the need of the client, right? So, um when the client is doing a series of services, right? you want to quantitate that, you know, how they're doing, right? You want to be able to put data to um what it is that they're doing and they can see the progress of how it's changing their brain. So, for instance, in this case, um HBOT we know has has significant improvements to the brain because you're getting oxygen to hypoxic tissue which is in the brain, right? So what I want to do is integrate in with like the treatments that we do with, you know, being able to measure it, right? Beyond just subjective, oh, I feel better. I'm sleeping better and things like that. Well, let's see how this is actually working with the the procedures and all that. So, um, what what I'm doing is, you know, spending a good part of my mornings. I usually get up in the morning and and before I even like start in with the emails and all that stuff, I'm just kind of like reading, you know, glancing at, you know, forums, uh, magazine, you know, just like things like that and publish medical studies and and um I have some good friends, too. I bounce ideas off of as well some doctors and some physicians and um we talk about things that fit and work you know on a significant level and I think that's what I've done just taken kind of my engineering mindset and being able to go this is not good technology this is good technology this works you know and be able to bring that to the facility so our clients can use but based on what they need you know kind drives you know our whole progression. So like for instance you know we started with cryotherapy and like I mean it it's good it helps but like we had a lot of people with low back pain and cryotherapy would help somewhat to some degree but what we found is like when you use PMF and um you know people were like getting incredible results from it. So it was like, okay, well, we know clients have back pain and they're doing cryo and it's somewhat effective, but like what you know what about PMF? So we're like, oh yeah, this there's actually a demand for this. Um the red light, we were the first place, you know, eight years ago to have red light therapy in Houston and um now it's everywhere. you go everywhere and and we still work with the best suppliers that have medical grade equipment and a lot of what's out there is, you know, just junk scam red light and they're using panels and in order to get the right dosage, you have to be a certain amount of distance from the light and you have to be there continuously for 20 minutes, 15 to 20 minutes. So like you're standing in front of a panel. If you were standing it just right to your nose, then you're just getting like a strip of where the light is and it's not giving you that clinically effective dose. And if you look at all published med medical studies, they always talk about the millowatts per centimeter squared. And you get that by being a consistent distance from the light all the time for a certain amount of duration. So, if you've got one on your panel and or or you know, you got one that you stand in front, it's probably helping your mood, but it's probably not doing much beyond that. And then the other thing is is there's a lot of suppliers that just don't have what it t don't have the right dosages, don't have the right um wavelengths and things like that. I mean like was really curious. I mean to me to find out um when we start talking about Hbot Mhm. like these uh chambers from China. Yeah. That were that just like I guess they go to one atmosphere. Yeah. Uh and they're not really I don't even know if they're supplying oxygen in them or Yeah. That that's that's the key is like you don't know if you're getting you know oxygen through the mask or or whatever. So, um, a lot of a lot of chambers, um, are coming from China and, um, they're layown chambers. They look like hard shell chambers. Um, they might go to like one and a half atmospheres, which can be good. Um, but what they'll do is they'll hook up one of these oxygen concentrators that um, are only really good for like 3 or 4 PSI. And what happens is you pressurize the vessel and you have an oxygen concentrator, but you don't have enough pressure coming from the oxygen concentrator push into the chamber. So like you're not getting like true oxygen while you're in that chamber. And so like back to like the engineering aspect of it, you have to be breathing oxygen. You have to be a pressure. Also the the amount of pressure matters too. So like if you can do two atmospheres um and sometimes just a little bit greater if needed um it is night and day from one and a half atmospheres. And the calculations on that is like you get 1,400% more oxygen in your body at two atmospheres and breathing oxygen real oxygen um at higher pressure and versus um you know you know 1.3 and and you could be breathing oxygen not which is like one 200% if that you know so it's like a lot of people say oh you're wasting your time if you're in Hbot. Yeah, you are wasting your time if you're in one of those Hbots, right? Do you feel like your engineering degree helped you really pick out those things? Because I noticed inside of your clinics, uh, your practices, there's really everything is really the highest grade. It's the best of the best, which I mean obviously when you're running a business, that's like, you know, you've got to calculate Yeah. the cost of like okay what how long does it take to get a return on investment of this particular item those a lot of those things are massively expensive. Yeah. Um and so it's a huge outlay. Yeah. Um but do you feel like that I mean was the engineering degree or was that a combination of the passion of like I just I won't settle for anything but the very best. What is Yeah. 100% the engineering helps right like I think being able to break it down to kind of a fundamental level but also be able to look at you know the equipment and assess it and just know but like hyperbaric chambers easy like you just want like true certified equipment like back to the Chinese chambers th those aren't even like certified by the FDA and you're putting people in there and you're putting them under risk and like if something happens you have like no way of knowing whether or not that vessel was tested. I mean um so like I think the best um you know way that you know we think about things at human is you know number one the client has to get results right and we've had clients with us for 9 years. They've been with us since the beginning and they just keep coming back cuz they know it helps them and they know like they get results. you picked equipment that's going to give you the results even if it is expensive. Yes, you have to run the ROI calculator on that. But then also you have to look at the big picture and just say, okay, is this this going to work? And are we going to be able to get people through the door for this? Is there a market for it? Are people googling it? That's kind of important, too. Like if people aren't googling, you know, a certain modality, then it's a harder level of education, right? So, um, and you're solving problems, right? Um, let let's take for an example the pelvic floor chair, right? Um, how many people are out there that are struggling with that have no idea what to do? They're told they need to do surgery. This is like a 20 minute session that like you do six times and like completely, you know, reverses what's going on, right? Um, but also think about like, you know, as as we age, we don't like exercise our pelvic floor muscles, right? We don't exercise that. So, like, you know, it's just a muscle. You got to exercise it. So, this is a way to do that, you know, and and strengthen those muscle back back together. So, like what are people struggling with or what kind of equipment can we introduce to help that? And then how can we get it to market? Yeah. I think the interesting thing about um the the notion of um you know helping people and you know it's kind of a progression right the the more success like you only you know in our businesses we look for the fastest wins we can possibly get like hey what's the low hanging fruit we got to get fast results for our clients so we go after those try to hit them as fast as we can as that enables is to build a relationship with them and then help them along. I think you know like one of the things that you said before it's like hey we're not here like you didn't really say I'm paraphrasing it but it's like you're not selling anybody anything you're trying to provide them the right solutions for them at the right time and in order to do that you have to get results in that in that first portion and build a relationship like you know like how do you have clients for or patients whatever you want to call them people for 9 years it's because you've and consistently getting results. There's got to be some point in time where they come to you and they say, "What else can I do?" How how often does that happen? Oh, all the time. Like, you know, as we uh they trust us, right? Like um they know we're and we're probably we're probably not we're not a hard cell. Like we're just like, you know, this is what we have. If you have this issue, this is what could help you, right? And we obviously have to have cells in order to be able to function. But at the same time, we can be confident in the fact that like we're providing, you know, quality care and quality services that can really really help them. And also some of the way we design like our memberships and things like that, like we design them in a way that like if you're not doing this many sessions, like we can't help you. we'll tell them that like you know it's it it's probably not a good fit. you know, I'd rather not have them as a customer than go do what they did to some of these franchises, go and say, "That didn't work. That didn't work." You know, so like being able to speak to them and talk to them about like the routines you need, um the things that will work for you. And once you show them, they're like, "Yeah, then they're they're like, "Okay, what what's next? What do you got? Oh, you got a pelvic floor chair? Oh, I want to try that. I've been dealing with that for 20 years, you know, whatever it is. So, that was a crazy experience just sitting in that chair. Yeah. Um and Yeah. And I I mean, I didn't even do a full session. Yeah. But I I got a result from it. You know, I'm thinking like, hey, you know, we're squatting all the time, right? You know, so you know, you think like, oh, squat's going to hit the PO floor, but um Yeah. You know, no, it's different muscles. Yeah. Yeah. Different. Yeah. And I think for men, we forget that prostate health and um you know our urinary incontinents as we age, you know, all those are just important for us back to sleep. How good would it be, you know, if you had were able to go eight hours without getting up? And I know like when that happens for me, I kill it with sleep. So that means that's a performance-enhancing drug. Yeah, for sure. You know, it's interesting to like think like you almost have when you get to a certain age, you have to time it out like, "Okay, when am I going to stop?" And I'm always thirsty. Yeah. Yeah. Probably cuz I take too much creatine. Although, we just debated that the other not debated, but we talked about it. It's like now the now the talk on creatine is like, man, it's like 15 20 grams, right? People are pushing like levels that are way beyond. Originally, it was like five and the notion of going to 10, which is like last year. Yeah. Or go to 10. And now there's all this new talk about 2020. Um, which is gonna, you know, you're going to have to optimize your diet in order to to be able to handle that, I think. Yeah. Um, because otherwise, you know, that's going to retain. So, it's, you know, you taking in all these um the right minerals and the right vitamins, the right nutrients, you know, the list goes on and on and on when you're really trying to optimize health. And um it it's tough to do. Curious, last thing I want to ask you about diet. Well, as I was saying at lunch, it's never a one-sizefits-all. So, what I do may not work for everybody else. Um the way I diet is um you know how they talk about um you know, highintensity interval training, right? So I do highintensity like nutrition, right? So depending and what I mean by that is like depending on how I'm training depends on how I eat, right? So um if I do a big heavy leg workout, you know, I'm going to be eating. I'm going to be eating carbs. I'm going to be eating, you know, fats and I'm going to be eating protein, right? So um but again, you know, I think this is just foundational. It goes without saying. you you you don't want to eat processed food. Um you want to eat, you know, meat, fruits, vegetables, you know, carbs, and some kind of sugar in there, whether that be honey or something like that, especially if you're training and stuff. So on those those days that you train, um you've got to make sure or you're even recovering from that training, you got to be doing that. But now if I go, you know, a few days without training or working out, then, you know, I'll see my calories, you know, you know, really come down. Skip, skip a meal here, there. Um, another thing that I think is um, important is the timing of eating too that I don't think people realize um, is like the more you can frontload your food, meaning breakfast and lunch and the amount of calories, the better you're going to sleep. So, it gets back to sleep. And so I found, and I'm sure most everybody is this way, if you start watching your sleep, if you go to bed and you're still digesting food, your heart rate's going to be up. You're not going to sleep as great. Your blood sugar sugar is going to drop in the middle of the night and then you're going to have a peak that wakes you up, right? So my best um sleep is when, you know, I frontload all those meals and then really taper off in the evening, which is so hard. you know, we were getting back to having kids and a family and the social aspect of all of that. like you don't want to be the person going out and eating and and not you know but what I try to do is like okay I know I can't completely eliminate that and just can't go out and just sip water while I'm have in a social settings but what kind of foods can I have that are easier to digest you know before I go to bed in you know four to five hours or whatever it is so like let's say you didn't get as much in in the previous day but I think you'd be better served served. Um, shorting your calorie intake and skipping that latter meal, then, you know, trying to stuff in the amount of calories or the protein that you think you need to have towards the end of the night just because you think you need to have that and then you go to bed, you don't sleep good. Well, where where's muscle made? It's made in sleep, right? So, the better you can sleep, the better, you know, you you're you're going to feel and you're going to recover and all that. So to me, nutrition is around a lot of like sleep and timing and where you're at in your recovery. And so I'm definitely not a one-sizefits all. I kind of go off a gut feel. Um you kind of ask me what are my macros. I have no idea. I just like know that I did a hard workout yesterday and um I need to really get a lot of protein in. So, you know, whatever that is, I'm trying to fuel that. And then I'm just trying to think about my sleep that night. Like what when should I be getting in my calories in order to be able to do that? And I think one of the biggest things like I found um any kind of meat as you kind of get towards closer to bedtime is harder and harder on your sleep. So the more you can have like the meat up front. So steak and eggs, you know, for breakfast that's like that would be ideal time. And so like a lot of times I don't even have a steak at night. If I don't have a steak by lunchtime, I'm not having a steak. So cuz I'm thinking about sleep that night. Do you do anything? So you know there's the whole EAA talk now. Uh so we we didn't touch on ketone esters and we haven't talked about EAS but EAS as you know is a way to get in the essential you know components of the things that you're going to need to recover at night. Um you know depending on how you how you see it. you know, when you take those, it's like, you know, it's going to take like an hour to fall asleep because they're gonna they're gonna it's going to take a while to digest and so they're going to keep you up. But do you ever do you ever use those? Do you ever think about that? Ever is that something that you um the amino acids or Yeah, I mean like just the EAAS I'll do it where I take like essentially the equivalent of I don't I think it's somewhere in the neighborhood of like 58 gram which would be like a normal protein um you know sort of intake in a meal uh or thereabouts right I'm trying to get 235 grams of protein per day that's a lot of protein and you're like dude you know if you're trying to get that in uh in the in the morning that's a massive amount of protein so you know I'm trying I'm I'm trying to move more towards what you're talking about because I think the advice is really solid. Yeah. I really like what you're saying. I just wonder how do you get to like that spot you're saying like maybe you don't need it. Yeah. Um I'm not tracking so I don't know. Um and uh but I will know like you know about how much um you know if I have a protein shake I'll know how much that is there. I know how much chicken breast is. um I'll know how much, you know, shrimp is and just things like that. So, I'm kind of just running that calculation in my head earlier in the day just to kind of make sure that and those bills are sometimes kind of big, you know, but the good thing about it is is like I'm done with that food by the time I go to bed and I'm not having to like, you know, put it through the system for the body to have to gather in the nutrients to be able to get it to where it needs to go. Um, some of the best sleep I've ever gotten is just fasted, you know, where For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Your body's just not having to digest food. The toughest part about that is getting past that window of time where it's either emotional eating or often times it's just like it's like, can I just have the willpower to stick it out past this period of time? I know I'm going to sleep better. Yeah. You got to have hacks, right? So, like just back to everything like that. So, one of the things I do at home is I have um I have three jars and one's pistachios, one's macadamia nuts, and then the other one's cashews. And so, um you know, and you just you just have it available, right? So, when you're at home and gosh dang, I need something, you know, you just grab 10 cashews or whatever it is and then you just eat them, right? and you just have it available and like you know that that's got some good fat, some salt and some things like that but it's not potato chips, right? And it's not ice cream and it's not you know some of these other things that you know can cause and I found that that really doesn't upset my sleep, right? Digesting nuts don't don't have an issue for me. So, um, so certain little hacks like that, you know, another thing I do is, um, I'll brush my teeth early and like instead of like brushing my teeth like right before I go to bed. Yeah. Like it signals and it's so crazy. It's like your your body goes, "Oh, I'm done eating." Right. It's just like you're trying to find something to eat cuz like now you've got this fresh mouth and you're like, "Ah, I'm good." Dude, you're you're doing stuff that's so far beyond. It's just absolutely amazing. I've never seen anything like it. Um, and I think like you're you're like this leader in the industry that I feel so blessed to have like been introduced to you and and and gotten to know you in a way that I think um is just so amazing because it's like I'm I'm literally watching like this thing happen that it is the model for no one will ever have your secret sauce and know exactly how to you do it. Yeah. Uh beware imitators out there. uh don't try, you know, it's like don't try this stunt at home, right? Leave it to the professionals. And I think it takes a lot to actually pull off what you've done to get to where you are. Um but man, I I just I'm I'm so pumped for you and also really the good great things that you're doing for people. You hear those stories and I I've had the privilege of actually hearing them. Yeah. So I get to hear about who's doing, you know, what kind of like the dude that the guy that you put back on the golf course, right? Yeah. Tell that story really quickly. just what you got to tell that story. Okay. So, um guys, um probably in his mid70s, he owns a golf course and um he he was a client probably before CO, right? And he used to come in and he obviously knew the benefits and all that. And I, you know, what for whatever reason during COVID, you know, everybody got out of their routine and and uh whatever. Well, he called me last year sometime. He's like, "Mel?" And you know, he's this 75 year old guy and he's just, you know, matter of fact, owns a golf course. He's like, "I need help." And I was like, "Yeah, well, come on in. Well, I'll show you around." And so, um, I was like, "A lot's changed. You know, we don't just have cryo, we have cryo. Um, tell me what you're dealing with." He's like, "My knee, my back, you know, my hips, you know, all this stuff." And I was like, "Okay, so we're going to manage the inflammation. we're going to get you on the PMF and then we're going to add in red light, you know, and and we're going to alternate these days, you know, you're going to do this, this, and this. Well, he he gotten to the point where he he wasn't even, you know, able to play golf, right? And you can only imagine, you know, a guy who's been around golf his entire life and he's gotten to a point where he's just in so much pain that he can't even, you know, go out there and swing a club. It's his passion, really. Yeah, it's his passion. And he started doing that and couple weeks later played around. He played around and you know he just kept beling. Now he plays you know two or three times a week and every time I see him he's like a feel so great you know and so to take a guy from you know mid70s who was starting to think that this reality that he was never going to be able to play golf again. Right? And we just went in and say we're going to do a holistic approach. We're going to use, you know, red light, PMF, cryotherapy. Trying to think if he's doing anything else. He wants to do hyperbaric, but like those are the main kind of foundational things that he's doing. Oh, we we'll do uh the laser on him as well. We'll do the cure wave laser every once and we've got this little routine for him. And he's just happy as can be. You know, he's got his life back. He's just tells us every time, I feel good. I feel good. You know, so and they stick with it, right? Because once you get that, you can't go back, right? Yeah, it happens. Like people go without it and they're like, "Oh man, I notice it." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I know I do. Um Well, I can tell you like coming back here to San Francisco after um after being down there and a couple workouts in, I was like, I mean, I remember that workout we had. Yeah. Where we were I think you like uh Oh, the farmer's carry thing, right? So, so, um, we're there and I think we were just both trying to like check each other out about like, you know, okay, what what can this dude do? Well, how can he lift? I'm like, yeah, all right. So, you pick up these kettle bells, which I'm not a kettle bell guy. It's not my thing. But I was like, all right, well, I'm going to hang with this dude. And all of a sudden, um, you know, I think when I we do farmers carries, we're just not not really do not really doing them actually, admittedly as much as I should, but when when I went to pick those up, um, I was like, these are 80 lb tennis. That's like 160 for that full stretch, right? I remember at the end I had to like like my grip, my forearms were I felt like I'd been fishing in Alaska for, you know, was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, dude, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. And you know what? I just really want to thank you so much and thank you for all the things that you're doing for every everybody out there. Yeah. Leading the way, being a leader in the industry, uh a fire brand, a trailblazer, and somebody with an incredible vision, incredible heart, and a desire and a passion to be the best. So, well, thank you. It's time for dinner. Let's go.

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