Risk, Grit, and 1% Gains That Compound | Rod Hall

Life isn't just about being safe and comfortable; you want to take some risk in life. I got into this mindset of "I'm going to try things." I’ll end up finding out if I can’t do something, but I’m just going to keep doing things until I hit a brick wall. You’ve got to continuously break the mold on a pathway to peak performance. You grind it out. It's like going to the gym or anything that you do—a little 1% gain every year compounds, and after a while, it's a big gain. I don't like "fake it till you make it," but I think maybe "do it until it becomes second nature," which isn't as sexy a thing to say, but that's the truth for me.

You may be one of the rarest things that exists in all of creation. Don't take that for granted; take that seriously. This existence is valuable—every second of it.

Guest Introduction: Rod Hall's Journey

Host: Rod Hall, welcome to the Pathway to Peak Performance. So great to have you in, my friend.

Rod Hall: Great to be here. Great to see you.

Host: We talked and your charity is Direct Relief. They provide medical assistance to people in poverty who can't afford it, and they have a very high efficiency rating as well. They don't use professional fundraising, so a lot of your money actually goes to help people—unlike some other organizations where a ridiculous amount, like 90%, goes to administration.

Rod Hall: Yeah, oh gosh, it's so true.

Host: Well, the story of the show is about you and your pathway to peak performance. You have a super interesting story of grit, hard work, and a desire to actually make something happen. So, take us back to childhood and let's roll all the way through.

Early Life: Growing Up on a Kansas Farm

Rod Hall: I haven't been as convinced as you about this story, but I'm going to tell it anyway. I grew up on a farm in Kansas. My dad was an airline pilot, so we had more money than the average farmer, but he was a very hard worker. He flew for TWA—he was a military pilot then a TWA pilot—but we also had 100 head of beef cattle on a fully functioning cattle farm. You can imagine the insane amount of work that goes along with that.

That's the environment I grew up in. My dad was very into toughness. He had us out in the middle of the freezing cold of winter cutting wood because we heated the house with wood. From that, I got a very strong work ethic. Growing up in the middle of Kansas is a whole different thing than California, and I think that instilled in me interesting values. Having lived overseas and here, you get a lot of perspective from all these different groups of people you interact with.

Host: There’s a certain thing about people from the Midwest. There’s a work ethic and a general niceness.

Rod Hall: I think that’s true. There are good people everywhere I’ve lived, it just seems some places are less than others. I was getting up before the break of day most days feeding cattle and feeding my 4-H steer. I raised a steer from the time I was seven years old every year and sold it at the county fair, which paid for my college for the most part. My parents made me put the proceeds into a bank account that grew over time. I also had 20 head of cattle of my own by the time I went to college, so I sold those to further pay for it. I went to Kansas State University and studied electrical engineering. Go Wildcats!

College and Early Career: From Kansas to AT&T

Rod Hall: Nobody’s career is as linear as they’ll tell you at this stage in life. It all sounds like it makes sense later, but at the beginning, it doesn't make any sense and we just find our way. I started working for AT&T as a field engineer. I ended up working on the Pizza Hut network. Pizza Hut was one of the first companies that integrated data and voice. They had a 1-800 number that delivered your order into a local Pizza Hut and your record would pop up on a screen. It was one of the very first instances of a call center the way we know it now.

About a year and a half later, I was pulled from Wichita, Kansas, to AT&T headquarters in New Jersey. I started working as a technical liaison to a product team and got into a management development program. My last job at AT&T was in Europe. I ended up moving over to France and running product marketing for about 20 countries because I chased my wife over there.

International Experience: Moving to France and Career Growth

Rod Hall: I met my wife, Judith, at AT&T. she was very into international stuff and applied for a job in Paris. It was a long shot because those jobs were highly sought after "expat deals" with great benefits. The person who was going to take the job backed out at the last minute, and since Judith speaks French fluently, she got it. We were dating, and she told me she wanted to take it. I said, "You should take it; I can't stop you."

We got engaged six months later. I went to my mentors at AT&T and said, "I need to find a job in Paris." I remember my mentor saying, "You're going to destroy your AT&T career if you go over there." I told him, "If you don't find me a job, I'll busk in the Paris Metro with my guitar." He said, "Okay, I guess I'll find you a job."

It turned out to be the best job I ever had because I had full autonomy. There was no safety net; everything you did was on you. It was a real job, not just making slides at headquarters. While there, I applied to a business school in France called INSEAD for an MBA. That’s how my career went off in the direction of financial services and becoming a stock analyst.

Becoming a Stock Analyst: The Telecom and Tech Boom

Rod Hall: I moved to France in '96 and was there for three years, then London for another 11. That was a life-altering experience. It's hard to see outside your own culture until you "go native" somewhere else. You begin to see the specific attributes of American, French, or British culture. When we left in '96, the US was much less divided than when we came back in 2010. It was a shocker.

When I got out of business school, the internet bubble was on. I realized that being an equity analyst looked interesting, and firms were hiring people with telecom industry experience to cover new entrant telcos. I started as a junior analyst in London during a truly explosive time—it was like AI is now.

I remember showing up in Paris as a guy from Kansas. The French don't have the same queuing system we do. I’d be at the grocery store and old ladies would keep cutting in front of me. I stood there for 20 minutes before I realized I had to push my way ahead and violate all my Midwestern principles! But the customer service culture in the US is best-in-class; Europe is definitely not there.

The Smartphone Revolution: Covering Nokia and BlackBerry

Rod Hall: I survived the implosion of the telecom bubble. Our research team collapsed from 20 people to 10. I started getting bored with telecom because the business models were all very similar. I moved over to JPMorgan to cover technology stocks like Nokia and Ericsson.

I went through the advent of the iPhone and the impact it had on Nokia and BlackBerry. Because of standards adoption, the Europeans were actually way ahead of the US on cellular technology at the time. I remember buying one of the first iPhones in the US, bringing it back to London, and hacking it to use on the networks. My first month, I used over a megabyte of data—my bill was like a thousand pounds! I told my boss, "These things drive incredible data usage. It’s unbelievable."

You could see it was going to destroy Nokia and BlackBerry. I was on earnings calls with them and would ask about Apple. Management would go on a 15-minute diatribe, which is when you know they're in trouble. They were hardware-oriented cultures, and the world had moved to software. They couldn’t adapt.

Cultural Differences: JPMorgan vs. Goldman Sachs

Rod Hall: I’ve always been ambitious. Moving to France felt like a huge risk, but it paid off. Life isn't about being safe; it's about taking risks when presented with opportunity. I ended up as the number one ranked analyst in my sector in the US. It was a grind—1% gains every year that compounded. A lot of people stop grinding when they think they've "arrived," but there is always someone who will keep going. I turned out to be that guy.

I finished my career at Goldman Sachs. JPMorgan and Goldman both have strong cultures but are very different. JPMorgan is phenomenal but a bit bureaucratic because of its size. Goldman is much more freewheeling and entrepreneurial. People are given a lot of independence and are expected to be high performers who take control.

In 2018, the White House had a conference on quantum computing. Goldman asked me to represent the whole firm. I was sitting there with the CIO of JPMorgan. That highlights the difference: Goldman judged me to be the best person to represent them, even though I wasn't the C-suite executive, and they expected me to handle it.

Exploring Parallel Universes and Quantum Computing

Rod Hall: I learned incredible things about quantum computing. I asked a physicist how these computers solve problems in an instant that would take a normal computer a million years. He said, "We don't really know, but we think we're leveraging computing in many different parallel universes all at once." That’s their best theory!

I also worked on blockchain and crypto. Being at Goldman, anyone will pick up the phone for a senior analyst. I used those reports as a way to learn the technology myself.

Handling Tough Times and Maintaining Perspective

Rod Hall: People see the results, but they don't see the hard work. It's like strength training—there are many more hard days than easy ones. Where do I go when things are hard?

First, I’m blessed to have a very strong, supportive partner. Second, I go to church every week. That is a mental reset. It makes me think about things greater than myself and realize I'm not that special—other people are going through tougher things. Third, physical exercise. I see my work performance as an extension of my body's ability to perform.

Finally, perspective. These little things that seem like a big deal—a mistake in a report or a bad stock call—are relatively small in the grand scheme of life. My family and friends are what's important. I try to maintain a hopeful outlook. Humanity has always had challenges, but there are more good people than bad, and we eventually work through them.

Reflections on Retirement and Returning to Work

Rod Hall: I retired for about ten minutes! I took two years away, but I started to miss the technology world. About a year ago, I made some calls and now I'm working part-time for a company I used to cover. They develop networking technology for AI infrastructure.

It is the most exciting moment in technology in my entire career—more than the internet bubble or the smartphone transition. This AI wave is the most shocking and exciting one yet.

Advice for Young Professionals

Rod Hall: 1. Know yourself: What are you interested in and where do your abilities overlap?

2. Be curious: The world is changing too fast to predict. Follow things as they develop.

3. The grind: If you want to achieve something, you have to grind. Enjoy the process of the 1% improvements.

4. Ask for help: My kids are reluctant to ask for advice, but most people really want to give back. Have the courage to say, "You represent where I want to go, I need help getting there."

The Art of Hiring and Team Trust

Rod Hall: At Goldman, I learned the importance of the team interview. Because individuals have so much responsibility, you cannot afford a cultural misfit. If even one person on the interview panel says, "I don't think this person is a fit," the process is usually over. It sounds harsh, but it works.

The Rarity and Value of Human Existence

Rod Hall: There are at least 200 billion stars in the Milky Way. If the human race expands to a million star systems over the next thousand years, that would still only be 0.00005% of the volume of our galaxy.

Life is likely extremely rare. We may be the only civilization in this galaxy. You may be one of the rarest things in all of creation. Don't take that for granted. Take your existence seriously. Maximize every moment.

Host: Rod, it’s been an honor to have you here. Thank you for taking the time.

Rod Hall: Thanks, Jock. I enjoyed it more than I thought I would!

Host: Thanks everyone for watching. Please like, comment, and subscribe. We'll see you soon.